Chapter 74

Yan Youcheng was left speechless by the question. After stiffening for a while, he began to rub his temples, "Oh, this won't do; I need to rest for a moment, my head hurts again."

Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan: (→_→)

Having been defeated by Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan again, Yan Youcheng felt resentful and thought of borrowing help, "Brother Wenshen! You go!" He paused and added, "And don't you dare show any mercy!"

Liu Cheng smiled slightly but said nothing.

Yu Yi said, "Young Master Yan has been slightly defeated; can Young Master Liu defend?"

"Defeat" and "defend" were terms used in pure conversation; the former refers to being frustrated, the latter to arguing back.

Liu Cheng cupped his hands, smiled again, and still said nothing.

Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan said, "If Young Master Liu has any refutations, I am all ears."

Liu Cheng was waiting for Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan's invitation. Seeing her finally speak, he first looked at Wang Yang, "Brother Wang, would you like to go first?"

Wang Yang saw through Liu Cheng's intention to "put on airs" and thought: This guy is a bit pretentious; it's not like abdicating the throne, why the need for three refusals and three invitations?

Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan said directly to Wang Yang, "Young Master Wang, please offer some guidance."

Liu Cheng's brow twitched slightly again.

Wang Yang praised, "Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi's talent for debate is clear and thorough, and her words are rich and broad. I am like someone looking at something in front of them, only to find it suddenly behind them; how could I dare to offer guidance? It is better to let Brother Liu do it."

Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan glanced at Wang Yang.

Liu Cheng said, "Brother Wang, aren't you being too modest? I heard from Zong Ce that you won a pure conversation debate against Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi once; why are you so sparing with your words today?"

"Really?!" Yan Youcheng sat up straight.

Having seen Wang Yang remain silent earlier, and thinking that Wang Yang was a student of the commandery school whose profession was the study of classics, he had assumed Wang Yang's pure conversation skills were poor. But if he had truly won against Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan, that was a different matter!

Langya Wang clan, family in decline, student of classics, dual cultivation of Confucianism and Daoism?

This is interesting!

Wang Yang said, "That was just a game of pure conversation last time, pure luck. Today, Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi's argument is so profound; how could I dare to speak recklessly?"

Oh, so he's just a paper tiger.

Yan Youcheng instantly lost interest, his posture slumped, and he leaned back against the armrest again.

A smile appeared on Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan's small face.

Liu Cheng asked again, "Brother Wang, are you sure you won't do it?"

Are you going to keep nagging?

Wang Yang cupped his hands and said, "My learning is truly limited; Brother Liu, please proceed."

Only then did Liu Cheng speak slowly:

"Just now, Ankang refuted the first point, so I will follow him and refute the second. Fourth Xie Xie Niangzi says Laozi's focus is on the word 'victory,' and therefore his calculating mind is heavy. I believe victory and the calculating mind are not necessarily related. If speaking of victory means having a calculating mind, then when Zhuangzi says 'conquer things without harming them' and 'using many small defeats to achieve a great victory,' wouldn't that also become a calculating mind?"

"That is different. The victory Laozi speaks of is extremely utilitarian—the weak overcoming the strong, the soft overcoming the hard; the softest thing in the world galloping over the hardest thing in the world. It is close to calculation and can be used for power and deception. Therefore, Han Fei cited Laozi's words, saying Goujian 'wished to take, so he must first give,' and chapters like 'The Way of the Ruler' and 'Yang Que' also expand on the meaning of the 'Dao De Jing,' using it as a technique for a ruler to control his subordinates. The calculating mind is deep indeed."

Liu Cheng smiled, "The weak overcoming the strong, the soft overcoming the hard—these are all natural principles. Does explaining principles mean it is utilitarian? Then if I say trees are taller than grass, the roc is larger than the turtledove, and tigers, leopards, bears, and wolves are fiercer than chickens, pigs, cows, and sheep, wouldn't that also be utilitarian—"

Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan immediately said, "Of course it is utilitarian! Zhuangzi speaks of the theory of equalizing things: nothing in the world is larger than the tip of an autumn hair, and Mount Tai is small; nothing is longer-lived than a child who dies young, and Peng Zu is short-lived. The stalk and the pillar, the leper and Xi Shi—the Dao unites them all! Your distinguishing between trees, grass, rocs, and doves is naturally utilitarian."

Oh no, little Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan is about to be caught in a trap.

When Wang Yang heard Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan say this, he felt something was wrong.

Sure enough, Liu Cheng smiled and asked in return, "Since the Dao unites them all, why do you say Laozi and Zhuangzi are different?"

Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan was instantly choked.

Liu Cheng continued calmly:

"Actually, the third point the Fourth Xie Xie Niangzi made can also be refuted. Laozi is not someone who fears or hates death; otherwise, he would not have said, 'The reason I have great trouble is that I have a body; if I had no body, what trouble would I have?' He also said, 'A violent wind does not last the morning, a heavy rain does not last the day; if heaven and earth cannot last, how much less can man?' These are clearly words of detachment and insight, not words of someone confused by life and death.

It is just that human nature fears death and hates death. The sage, wishing to carry out education, had to borrow things that human nature hates to use as metaphors to explain principles and warn the hearts of the masses. Even if we use Zhuangzi's own words, there is the sentence, 'Every day he bored a hole, and on the seventh day, Chaos died.' It is not that Zhuangzi views death as a bad outcome, but that it is an allegory borrowing events to explain principles; he had no choice but to do so."

He adjusted his sitting posture and looked around slightly:

"Mencius said, 'Those who explain the Odes should not let the words harm the phrases, and should not let the phrases harm the intent. Using one's own intent to meet the intent of the author—this is how to get it.' In reading, the most taboo thing is to die under the sentences. If one is trapped within a word or two, stuck between three or four sentences, and ignores the entire text, it is easy to be blinded to the true meaning and fail to perceive it, leading to going south while the destination is north, never understanding it for a lifetime. How regrettable! How painful! All of us who read books must be cautious here!"

Liu Cheng's expression carried a hint of regret, and he shook his head slightly.

Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan's expression was solemn; she lowered her head in thought but could not find a way to break his argument.

Liu Cheng looked at Wang Yang, "Brother Wang, what do you think?"

Why do you keep cueing me?

However, Mencius's method of reading is indeed a principle that has remained unchanged for a thousand years.

Wang Yang cupped his hands and said, "Brother Liu's words resonate with me; your insight is excellent!"

Last time, Wang Yang said "Your insight is excellent" in response to Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan's argument, and now he used the same four words for Liu Cheng. The transition was very smooth, with no sense of awkwardness at all.

Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan raised her slender eyebrows.

Yan Youcheng clapped his hands, "Brother Wenshen's discussion is logically sound and clearly reasoned, enough to be the final word! In this pure conversation, the one who takes the top spot is none other than Brother Wenshen."

Liu Cheng laughed, "If that is the case, the Fourth Xie Xie Niangzi will certainly not be convinced. Fourth Xie Xie Niangzi, are you willing to lend me the whisk?"

Handing over the whisk is equivalent to having one's argument broken.

Although Liu Cheng calls it borrowing, it is actually a seizure.

Although Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi Xinghan was unwilling, she had no choice but to place the whisk on the tray, which the attendant then delivered to Liu Cheng.

Liu Cheng picked up the whisk, shook it three times, and said in a clear voice:

"The Daoist school was formed by Laozi and Zhuangzi. Both speak of the 'Dao,' of 'non-action,' of 'opposites,' and of 'discarding sagehood and abandoning knowledge.'

Zhuangzi inherited from Laozi. Laozi said, 'The Dao that can be spoken of is not the eternal Dao,' and Zhuangzi said, 'The Great Dao is not named.' Laozi said, 'Great eloquence is like stuttering,' and Zhuangzi said, 'Great eloquence does not speak.' Laozi said, 'I practice non-action, and the people transform themselves,' and Zhuangzi said, 'You merely dwell in non-action, and things transform themselves.'

Therefore, the Grand Historian said Zhuangzi's 'essentials are rooted in the words of Laozi.' This is true!

Back then, Wang Yifu asked Ruan Xiu about the similarities and differences between Laozi, Zhuangzi, and Confucianism, and Ruan Xiu replied, 'Perhaps there is no difference.' This is very well said.

Laozi and Zhuangzi are no different from Confucianism; how then can Laozi and Zhuangzi themselves have differences?

The 'Under Heaven' chapter of 'Zhuangzi' says, 'The arts of the Dao will be split by the world.' It is not that the arts of the Dao themselves are split, but that they are split by those who discuss them in the world!

Although Xie Xie Niangzi Xie Xie Niangzi's argument is strange, it splits the Great Dao and confuses similarities and differences. While it is new, it cannot avoid the flaw of being empty!"

After finishing, Liu Cheng tapped the table with the whisk, the sound clear and bright: "The argument on the differences between Zhuangzi and Laozi is broken!"